Avatar Bows

[Veleg_Valar]

Hey everyone,
Wow its been a while. i was a reg on the old website.

So I saw the new avatar movie, it was pretty good. But being an archer/bowyer, the interesting bows and style of shooting caught me attention oppose to anything else.

I would like to start this topic to discuss making some bows similar to those in the movie

[kauboy]

I've been curious about the bows in this movie too.
Haven't gotten around to seeing it yet, but the thing that caught my eye was the way they draw their bows.
Instead of drawing split three-finger, palm in, they draw split two-finger palm out.

Needless to say, I had to try this for myself.
I haven't shot that way yet, but I did draw it. Strange indeed, but doable.
Not sure how good the release will be when I actually try shooting though.

Another note about them.
Being a species of 10 feet tall, they're bows would be quite large to recreate and operate at full scale.
If the rule-o-thumb is length of bow = height of archer, I'd love to see someone make and shoot a 10 footer, lol...

[crimbizzle]

Also have to consider the fact that they are aliens and perhaps their physiology lends to a different draw. Who knows how the muscles in their forearm work.

Most likely, I think, is hollywood wanted to make them look cool and ever so slightly radical. Accuracy and combat feasibility be damned.

[Veleg_Valar]

True, they way they shot could damge your elbow/forearm if it was a really heavy draw weight.
Also a 10ft bow would be the sickest thing on this planet. js ;0

What im working on now is trying to create a working bow that looks like those in the movie. then shoot it the way they do and increase the size. lol

[Newo Ikkin]

Long time no see~ ^_^ Hope you all had a great summer and holidays. I saw Avatar twice in the theatre and it was fantastic. The second I saw the bows of the a Na'Vi, I thought to myself, "Oh I can't wait to see if the guys on Bowstick have seen this/are making this yet!" I'm not sure I have the skills to make a functioning one, but I'd love to have one. ^_^ I think its great to see the one with the dragonfly looking/insect wing parts. ^_^ I'll stay tuned to see the awesomeness at work.

[crimbizzle]

Until we figure out how to imbue our bones with "naturally occurring carbon fiber" it might be best to stick with traditional methods of drawing a bow. On a slightly different tangent, did anyone else jump up out of their seat when they shot straight THROUGH the armored cockpit glass on those little choppers? So very cool.

[kauboy]

On a slightly different tangent, did anyone else jump up out of their seat when they shot straight THROUGH the armored cockpit glass on those little choppers? So very cool.

Haven't seen it yet, but did a little searching and found that this topic has support for both sides of the debate on feasibility.

[crimbizzle]

Realistically I find it hard to believe that even an arrow the size of a broomstick would go through any kind of modern armor. Not to mention that this would be futuristic armor and therefore (I assume) superior to anything we have today. It's still an awesome scene though.

[kauboy]

Dunno, the debate I found was describing how the arrows from 10 foot super-strong beings would be far heavier than any arrow humans could launch.
You'd basically be looking at a spear with a tip that can penetrate the animal hides of the local fare.
Apparently, even the weapons of the Marines couldn't take down these beasts.

The primary argument was that the arrow, with a pointed, bladed tip, would provide a lot more mass at the point of impact than any rifle round. (400-900 grains in a human arrow vs 55-75 grains in a 5.56 rifle round)
However, when you look at the velocities, it all probably falls apart.

Still cool!

[JPKalishek]

about the draw style
I noticed some of the younger shooters of compounds in 3D shoots using a similar position but with a release. palm out, thumb down, some using the wrist pull releases, other using the thumb triggered t-style.

As for damage the bow shooters did, yeah, a heavy arrow (scaled up for a ten foot alien) is gonna do some damage, but some of the stuff is B.S. (It is a Cameron film after all facts and physics be damned). The military uses Sapphire (specially grown crystals of Aluminum Oxide...Star Trek's transparent Aluminum is almost what it is) or other types of composite for the forward portion of it's "windscreens" on planes and 'copters, and I doubt an arrow is gonna carry more energy than a .50 BMG which is what a sapphire screen is supposed to stop, no problem.
But than again, as I said, it is a typical Cameron anti-military/anti-capitalism anti-modern society screed cribbed off Disney's Pocahontas.
I'm sure the cg is great, and if you ignore the implied message, or care less about it, it is a good watch.

[crimbizzle]

Agree. Whittier sent me a compelling article about how he followed the standard "White Messiah" movie script. White guy lives with natives, becomes even more native than they are, saves natives from his evil white brethren, gets hot blue chick. It is standard Cameron, but a badass flick none the less. Even if it's preposterous to shoot down an assault chopper with a bow and arrow.

I've seen vids of people using that kind of palm out technique with releases as well, wonder if it's just because with a release you have the option to swivel your wrist around as you draw.

[kauboy]

Finally saw this on Friday.
In 3D.

Two words...
AWE SOME!!!!

Since I'd read this thread prior to seeing it, I was watching for the points brought up.
I noticed that, while the Na'vi was able to penetrate chopper and mech cockpit glass pretty easily, it didn't seem that far-fetched.
In one of the scenes, a rifle was fired at a chopper, and the rounds tore through the glass like it was nothing.
A sidearm pistol was used, and caused the same damage as the rifle.

Any glass that can be penetrated by a 150-200gr bullet should easily be penetrated by a 6 foot, double-edge tipped, javelin flung from a ~9' bow drawn by carbon fiber enhanced aliens.

Now... onto the original topic, the bows themselves.
The "training" bows seemed simple enough.
Round/D-shaped, bend through the handle, with various vine/leaf decoration, and some way to secure 2 or 3 arrows to the front.


The "I'm a bada** hunter" bows were quite a different story.
Still essentially a D-shaped core, but with other "sub sections" that tied into the core like branches.
This is where the wings came into play.
Their function within the bow isn't known. Perhaps for added strength, "springy-ness", or just flair, we'll never know.
For our purposes, I guess it would only be flair.
But very cool flair!

In looking at this image, I noticed that the string ties into the blue wing arm at the top, and into the wood limb at the bottom.
Not positive that we'd ever be able to create a functioning bow like this...

I'm gonna try and find some screen caps to add to this.
I know there are some nice shots throughout the movie.
At the very least, the training bows should be doable.

[munkin]

Nice pics, thanks for posting!
Perhaps the "I'm a bada** hunter" bow is doable: you can make a core and put the string on this core both on the top and the bottom limb, and than add the other section. If you paint the top limb appropriately it sould be very similar to the original bow...

[kauboy]

That certainly sounds doable.
If anyone has the will and the way, I'd love to see how one of these turns out.

[munkin]

wait: on these pics the string seems to be attached on the core on both limbs, isn't it?:
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6290/immagine1yb.png

This is a screenshot of the movie.
Anyway, I would like to try to do this one, more simple for me...

[kauboy]

Yeah, it does.
That's the chief's bow.
All of the bows are slightly different from one another.

That one might be more feasible.
Make a working bow from just the core wood, then incorporate the other pieces.

[munkin]

Just another question: what do you think about the wings? How can I do them? Paper, leaves, plastic, wood, metal... which is the better way for you? The color isn't important because I have to color these sections... Thanks again!

[kauboy]

For the wing "webbing", I'd look for that gift warping stuff that is holographic.
It looks like this:

That's assuming you go with a dragonfly-like bug wing.
Some of them didn't look like bug wings, but rather small wings from the flying Irak creatures.
You could use dyed leather if you went for that look.

As for the skeletal structure of the wing, you'll just have to get creative.
I'm not sure what could be used to hold those curves.
You could experiment with heat treating and bending wood.

[crimbizzle]

Keep in mind that whatever you make it out of it's going to be subject to quite a bit of stress and shock when you shoot it (if you plan on shooting it) make it flexible enough and resilient enough to survive.

[munkin]

Great! I think I will use dyed leather, the aspect that i'm looking for is the wing of those big flying creatures. Good idea!
For the structure I have already found a solution: I have in my laboratory some little branches that I can easily bend. I have four pieces about 3 feet long, and the diameters are about 2/3''. The are very flexible, and I think they are enough strong to work in this stuff. Anyway, the secondary sections are connected to the core close to the handle, so they shuldn't move too much when I'll shoot whit the bow ( yes, of course I want to shoot whit this bow ). What do you think about it?
Thanks again for the ideas and tips!