first bow from my bench *new update #4*

[paradoxdj]

ahahahahahhahaha!! yeah it did.
i was looking at the WoW burning crusade case when i noticed that the blood elf had an awesome tattoo so i copied it in photoshop then added it to the line art photoshopped pic of myself.
case --> http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42348000/jpg/_42348848_bcpack-blizzard416.jpg

how do you like it?

*edit*
here's a better view of it with the lower opacity tattoo
(click to enlarge)

[crimbizzle]

/me begins to grumble about hordies and WHY did he ever choose alliance, WHO runs this game, WHAT are they thinking! Then he goes back to playing EVE.

[kauboy]

I noticed that too Crim, lol.

http://www.vandykestaxidermy.com/product/108025/bark-tan-dye1
I had another thought about it though. Even if you used a waterproof glue like tightbond III or an epoxy the application of lots of water might cause a bow to delaminate. I'm trying to think of some way to do it BEFORE you glued the thing up. Thoughts?

Not sure how this could be applied before glue-up on a Red Oak bow with drywall tape.
The tape goes on, before tillering, to hold splinters down.
If you apply the "Nightmare", you'll just be scraping it off during tillering.

The alternative is, make an unbacked Red Oak bow.
Thanks to Bladesmith, we have full proof that this is completely possible.
I've made three now myself.
No risk of glue delamination, just the same moisture content issue to keep in mind.(that was good thinking Crim)

[Murph]

(For the glory of the Alliance!)

(also, your nerd is showing.)

[paradoxdj]

umm crim i had no idea what your last post meant?!
murph, yeah my nerd tends to do that a lot, it's not ashamed of itself. oh and horde all the way, i think they just have better quests and the such, makes for a better experience in my opinion. i should probably try alliance again before i really say anything else though.

as for delaminating after the fact, i really hope this doesn't happen to me. i guess i'll have to add that to the list of things that i'm gonna test out when i try it the first time. thanks keep these concerns coming because i'll test them once i get around to that part of the process.

[Ivo]

I was getting a little concerned that me and crimbizzle here almost hijacked the thread with that "nightmare"

Anyway...Kauboy was right...the "black" is actually very thin and sanding the surface (even lightly) will remove this finish...Don't know about moisture issue, except that this process is sort of like raising the grain...just take some time to read the entire tutorial in the link I posted and you should have a good idea what can and can't be done there.

Man...I can't even remember when was the last time I played computer/video games...in light of my new toy that has an integrated high end computer with an insane graphics "engine"(that it needs to function at all)...Looking at the realistic high resolution textures of 3D scans makes me wonder what would those new games look like on this machine...guess that's where my nerd is showing (and I thought I cut it off with a rusty knife a long time ago)

PS: If that handle is popping off you should just wrap it in epoxy saturated thread and then give it a nice leather handle with a stitched back .

[crimbizzle]

Used to be a WoW player bigtime. I gave it up and I play EVE now when time permits. "/me" is how you emote in EVE. I can just hear Ivo grumbling about how much he'd like to be a moderator so he could edit out all the nerd posts. NERDS UNITE!

I raised the grain and sanded it down twice on my first red oak bow and came out with a beautifully smooth finish. Although, now that I think about it. It did take a pretty massive amount of set. If you were going to do this I'd let the bow sit for a week or two inside to ensure your moisture content isn't too high after the tillering, finishing, and ebonizing is done, but BEFORE you seal it. That way you could be reasonably sure that it wasn't too soggy.

Another thing you can try if your riser keeps popping off is putting a thin lamination of something between the riser and the bow. I think Sam Harper talks about it in his Ipe/Bamboo build-a-long on his site. It's called a "power lam" and has the effect of reducing the strain on the fades during draw. Which is usually what pops the riser off. It's a good excuse to buy a bandsaw and a belt sander though. Probably Ivo's idea of wrapping it is better for a first time though.

[Ivo]

You think of me too well ...but really I guess I deserve this as I've really let it loose that time with D&D. Actually when it comes to gaming I did my share only in CS style games...now I'm dreaming about the day when a full physics and chemistry engine based game comes out...something along the lines of parallel reality with materials and laws that normally apply to their manipulation. So basically a nice high res. model of planet earth only the game starts with no sign of human life and then we take it from there..."what you can do/build in reality is what you get"...so no quests really and no lengthy menus of stats...no HP bar...nothing except you and the world. ...I know - Keep dreaming kid

As for the handle...my bows broke but the handle stayed on and I used nothing special (titebond3) ...guess I did something right amongst all those wrongs when building my bow sticks.

[kauboy]

now I'm dreaming about the day when a full physics and chemistry engine based game comes out...something along the lines of parallel reality with materials and laws that normally apply to their manipulation. So basically a nice high res. model of planet earth only the game starts with no sign of human life and then we take it from there..."what you can do/build in reality is what you get"...so no quests really and no lengthy menus of stats...no HP bar...nothing except you and the world. ...

Pretty sure I've seen something like that...
I think it's called REALITY!

[Ivo]

Then you understand why I'm not that crazy about video games...well except for that extreme example of "Real" Sim...I don't see a reason why it wouldn't be possible thou, Autocads/Inventors these days are capable of calculating out and virtually testing machinery of insane complexity, so it's only a matter of hiding all the numbers behind the HD world model....well that and some crazy controller that would allow you to precisely replicate the movement of your hands/fingers...the wiimote ain't gonna be enough this time

[kauboy]

Not to derail this thread anymore, but video games are supposed to be an escape from reality.
Not a virtual facsimile.

[paradoxdj]

haha video games are just awesome. period.

now onto the update.

i got the things that i needed plus a couple tools and got started on my backing. i'm doing the same one from the tutorial so it's the fiberglass tape. i got a three layers on and now i'm gonna let it sit until next week most likely since i have a couple other projects i need to work on. so here it is atm.

(click to enlarge)

[crimbizzle]

Really soak it with the glue, you can always shave off the excess that dribbles off. You want it really well bonded to the back, as well as each layer bonded to each other. great looking project

[kauboy]

Can't agree more with Crim.
That backing needs to be soaked. Press the fibers down into the glue.

Think of it like pouring a concrete driveway.
The glue is the concrete. By itself, it isn't very strong.
But, add some re-bar, and the entire thing becomes much much stronger.
The tape fibers are like the re-bar.
They need to be embedded in the glue as much as possible to keep the mesh super strong.

[paradoxdj]

ok thanks guys, i had alot of glue on it before but in order to get it all flat i had to take some off. it still hasn't dried yet so i'm gonna run out to my garage and get some more back on there.

[crimbizzle]

you may end up with bubbles under the backing when you are done, just prick them with a pin and inject them with superglue to get a nice firm bond between the wood and the backing. I only used this on my first bow and after dealing with the mess swore I'd find another way. Hickory, Fiberglass, Bamboo, ANYTHING but goopy globs of glue. For the money, and ease of finding materials you can't beat it though.

[paradoxdj]

sorry for the intermission here but i had some other things that needed to get done.
i have an update for you all. i finished the backing and it came out great with no bubbles that i could see, and i got the nocks cut. my next step is to get a tillering stick built and get some string to start my tillering.

now on to the pictures. there's two of me flexing the bow before tillering just to take a look at it, i wanted to take a pic before and after just to see how it changed, i noticed a hinge right away on one side near the nock, that's the first things thats gonna get changed.
(click to enlarge)


what'd you think so far?

[crimbizzle]

Nice lookin' bow! If it's bending too much at the tips, or develops a hinge just follow Sam's tillering instructions to the letter, it's a dynamite guide. Pretty wild to start with a big clunky board and then get to to bend like that huh? I couldn't believe it when mine actually bent for the first time.

[Ivo]

Speaking of tillering...one thing that most first time crossbow makers lack is exactly this experience, but then again some choose to remain in the dark refusing to even try and imagine what it is like to tiller spring steel limbs.

Just messing ... keep it rolling Paradoxdj ... I'm repeating myself here(have been raving about this all over), but this might just be of interest to you and others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv1MZ8WYklk

[kauboy]

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the string grooves you cut are angled in the wrong direction.
If you put a string on it, that angle will either keep the string from ever staying on under strain, or end up cutting through the loop.

Luckily, it's fixable!
All you have to do is redo the grooves and angle them downward toward the riser, and then round off the rest of the tip, like this:


The rounding off should hide any original groove marks.

If you ever think you've messed something up, always remember this sound advice, good for both "hitchhikers" and bowyers alike... "DON'T PANIC!"


Good luck with the rest of it!

[paradoxdj]

haha yeah i had a feeling about that, oh well. thanks though.

[paradoxdj]

ok well i fixed the backwards string grouve...but not in the way that i really wanted to lol. i went to cut ones in the right direction making an "x" with the two grouves but i had accidentally cut the ones on one side a little too deep. thay got deeper witht he other half of the "x" and as i flexed it on the ground the tip snapped off. i broke pretty cleanly so i cut off the other side at the same point and smoothed down the broken side. all in all i only lost about 3 inches and now i have a clean palate for making new string grouves.

onto the pics

you can see how thin the piece was where it broke in the first picture and the second one is the two pieces with the smoothed off broken side of the bow
(click to enlarge)

[Ivo]

You know you can still get something out of this break...don't shorten the bow by reshaping the nock, but simply refresh the nock grooves by tying a triangular piece of wood with a glue saturated thread just under the groove...then simply fine tune the groove shoulders with a sanding stick(dowel rod wrapped in sand paper) or a file...it should look like a small ledge protruding from the bow back for string to catch on...I think it was actually a feature rather than a fix as it allowed to make nocks lighter. If you didn't get what I'm talking about, I'll post a pic later(typing off of my phone here).